A Few Thoughts on the Blogs For Victory “Never Again” Thread

Posted: August 5, 2015 by watsonthethird in Blogs For Victory, Conservative Idiocy, Contraception, Current Events, Health Care, Politics
Tags: , , , , , ,

Just took a look at the comments on the Blogs For Victory “Never Again” post, in which Leo Pusateri insanely equates Planned Parenthood with the Nazi Germany genocide of European jews. Apparently poor Leo is completely unaware that real genocide actually has occurred in the intervening years since World War II ended. But I don’t want to talk about Leo as the comments thread is much more interesting than his original post. And I guess the moderator is on vacation because rusty’s comments haven’t been deleted, leaving a nonsensical half-a-thread in its wake. Nice to see some actual give and take. It’s all been pretty civil, except of course for tiredoflibbs. Good ol’ tired is nothing, if not consistent. Always the first–and in this case, the only poster–to resort to name calling. Attaboy, tired! Have a treat!

Regarding rusty’s point that the loss of Planned Parenthood clinics would, in many places, result in decreased family planning and contraceptive services, thereby leading to increased instances of pregnancies and abortions, one can look at the experience in Texas.

In 2011, Texas legislators excluded Planned Parenthood from taxpayer funding. The state has yet to make up for the loss.

The number of women served by clinics within the Texas Women’s Health Program dropped significantly between Fiscal Years 2011 and 2013, when the funding changes took effect. According to a Texas Health and Human Services Commission study, there was an average 25 percent drop statewide, with two of 11 HHSC regions reporting more than 50 percent drops.

As a result of this change, some Texas patients had trouble finding alternate sources of family planning and women’s health, in part because other providers in their area had not previously been providing specialized family planning services and had to first get expensive, time-consuming training in those areas.

“That high quality family planning is very difficult to integrate into primary care without specific programs to do that,” Dr. Janet Realini, the chair of the Texas Women’s Healthcare Coalition, a coalition of organizations working to assure access to preventive women’s care.

Realini did praise the state government, however, for “stepping up” and trying to compensate for the lost Medicaid funds.

Rep. Jim Keffer, a Republican state senator in Texas who worked on the defunding measures, also acknowledged that the state is still working to address lost provider capacity, including recently introducing a new website to help women access family planning programs.

“As Planned Parenthood has been going through their spiral here, we have been bolstering what Texas can offer through this other network,” Keffer said. “You can’t just close it off and wipe your hands of the situation because comprehensive women’s health care has to still be provided.”

A related issue is that some women might not go to a general practitioner — even one that introduced family planning into their practice — because they prefer going to a specialist.

“Some women prefer to go to dedicated family planning providers to get dedicated contraceptive services,” said Amanda Stevenson, a researcher at the University of Austin’s Texas Policy Evaluation Project working on the impact of excluding Planned Parenthood from the Women’s Health Program in Texas.

Stevenson noted a 2013 review from the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health policy group, which found that women say they prefer going to specialists for this care because of “the respectful, confidential, affordable and high-quality care they receive from them.”

I know it’s hard for the Bob Eisenhowers of the world to believe, but according to those who have actually studied the situation, some women prefer going to dedicated family planning providers instead of their primary care physicians–assuming they have a primary care physician. But then Bob Eisenhower has probably never had to worry about his health care ever. In fact, it would not surprise me to find out that Bob was a life-long civil service employee like so many conservatives who can’t conceive of life without guaranteed health care. (At least, this is my direct experience with conservatives; their entire lifestyle–including their healthcare–has been funded on the taxpayer dime. I know some might view this as anecdotal, but apparently that is all it takes to make a definitive judgement about the entire lot of ’em.)

The other fact that Bob Eisenhower ignores is that 20 states–all of them governed by conservatives like Bob–rejected the Affordable Care Act’s Medicaid expansion, leaving an estimated 6.5 million Americans still without health insurance, and mostly without access to healthcare except in dire emergencies. It’s simple to sit back in your easy chair and pontificate about how easy it is for anyone–anyone!–to access health care whenever they need it, but that’s just not the case. And either Bob Eisenhower knows this and is being a tad deceitful, or he is woefully ignorant.

  1. meursault1942 says:

    ” And I guess the moderator is on vacation because rusty’s comments haven’t been deleted”

    Nah, CSL is on it now. It’s her usual MO: She’ll let a few go, but once she starts losing the argument–and she is pretty severely getting her ass kicked in this one…like, worse than usual–she starts deleting. I’m quite sure she’ll delete my next comment, as it will explicitly call out her lying. She can’t have that. Pointing out facts–and pointing out her lies–is “haranguing and personal attacks,” whereas screaming “HITLER AUSCHWITZ SLAVERY CHILD MURDERER!” as loudly and as frequently as possible…well, that’s just good, calm reasoning.

    As a side note, I think her response to my comment is her single greatest freakout in quite some time. So, uh, yay me, I guess?

  2. I love anecdotal evidence. She tried that crap with me so many times. I do not understand republicans honestly. What do they hate more honestly. Poor people or abortions. Birth control and abortions mean the tax payers do not have to pay for a unwanted child that will be a drain to the system or families can have budgets and not over extend themselves. I just had a little girl(who is extremely cute) but babies are expensive as crap. It cost 5 grand in hospital bills to have a kid. I googled it and you have to spend 300,000 dollars from the time you are born to the time you are 18 years old. That is a lot of money for people who are in poverty. it is like the same argument for minimum wage. Would you rather have less people on food stamps or more people on food stamps and keep the minimum wage the way it is? They want it both ways which is ridiculous. Bob seems like he has never met a poor person before. You mean there are people out there that can’t afford to go to doctors or do not have time to go to doctors because their job doesn’t give them the time. That is unheard of. Pretty funny and frustrating

  3. mitchethekid says:

    Zuckerberg (sp?) just donated $992 million to a charity that funds PP. What do you think the old bag will say to that? I am truly surprised that some of the B4Vers haven’t died yet.
    As a side note, Jay is a closet progressive. Ck out his FB. page.

  4. rustybrown2014 says:

    Yep, the boot has come down on me again. What a bunch of loons, completely impervious to reason. I’m just endlessly fascinated that they can have such an extreme case of cognitive dissonance (against policies and programs which help reduce abortions) to an issue which is obviously so important to them (abortion). That should take some kind of psychological tole, but maybe you’re immune if you’re a genetically challenged asshole. I guess it’s easier to self righteously pontificate about an issue than to actually educate yourself about it, especially if that education introduces contradictions to your cherished beliefs.

    As is becoming tradition, here is one of my last posts that was blasted out of the skies at bfv. Thanks for letting me post it here. It concerns Ama’s hysterical opposition to IUD’s, claiming they maim innocent young girls. I actually believe Ama’s accounts of her negative personal experience with IUDs, that type of painful outcome does happen, especially with inadequate medical implementation and follow-up (where was PP when she needed it?), but we shouldn’t base policy on isolated outliers. Like a lot of conservatives, Ama wishes her personal experience to be policy prescriptions for us all. Shortsighted and selfish.


    I’m not ignoring any details on IUDs, I’m presenting the details with facts and citations, while you’re hysterically overblowing relatively rare side effects.

    “Evidence supports effectiveness and safety in adolescents and those who have and have not previously had children.”

    …this comes from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. Oh, those pesky experts!

    “As of 2007, IUDs are the most widely used form of reversible contraception, with more than 180 million users worldwide.”

    …note the term “users”, not just adult women. Plenty of very young women are using IUDs and loving it:

    “Among types of birth control they, along with birth control implants, result in the GREATEST satisfaction among users.” (my emphasis)

    Say, do you plan on introducing any scientific evidence to back up your claims (as I do), or or can we just expect another horror story from Aunt Myrtle?

    So you can see why they’re deleting me now. After enduring Ama’s insults for so long, it’s hard not to get a bit snarky yourself.

    • rustybrown2014 says:

      Weird, everything between the bolded text should be bolded.

      • Wow. Aunt Myrtle?! You had to go there. That’s crossing the line. I can see why it was deleted.

      • rustybrown2014 says:

        Yeah well, as I said, it gets frustrating. And she had given about the same.

      • rustybrown2014 says:

        I mean, we had been going back and forth on this (previously too) and her only argument (besides hysterical, unsubstantiated over-generalizations of the risks) was that she/someone she knew had a bad experience while I was presenting substantial evidence that such outcomes were rare. She would not advance the argument with any new info, and after a while you have to call people on their bullshit.

      • That’s the usual M.O. There’s a dialog, and then suddenly someone decides to edit your comments and cut you off, accusing you of crossing some imaginary line that has already been crossed by themselves. It happens repeatedly. They are what they are.

  5. how did Amazona ever become a moderator? She is such a bitch over there. You can’t be called conservative unless you are 100% strict on the constitution. I bet you if someone goes to her and says what constitution says on slavery on many out of date things that she would say Liberal lies and say that is a gotcha question. How do you not think the constitution is living document? So freakin weird to me. She sounds like someone in the Taliban.

    • I like how Cluster is still responding to comments that are long gone. It’s like he’s debating a ghost. I guess it makes him feel bigger somehow. Whatever floats your boat, Cluster!

  6. Also of note: Cluster let his guard down and admitted that, regardless of whether the Constitution permits it, he “supports” Social Security and Medicaid. It’s a slippery slope to a federal government of unlimited scope and power, Cluster! lol Of course, why does he support Social Security, Constitution be damned? Because he’s gonna need it. His parents are probably relying on it right now. Same with Medicare. (I realize he said Medicaid, but you can be damn sure he’s gonna want his Medicare when the time comes. And thank God his parents have it.)

    What was that Mitch said above about Cluster being a closet progressive? 🙂

  7. meursault1942 says:

    Called it! I hurt Amazona so badly, that she didn’t even do her usual “overwrite the comment with excuses for why it needed to be deleted” and just straight-up disappeared the comment. I checkmated her in two moves! What a total loser she is. Anyway, here’s the post that sent her running for the hills:

    I see the facts really struck a nerve. For starters, Amazona, calm down. Really. Stop, take a deep breath, and most of all, think before pounding out a reply. Maybe write your response offline first, walk away, then come back and re-read and revise in a calmer state before posting. A levelheaded post might’ve gotten you somewhere, but instead, you put up a tirade that did you no favors. Hell, the very first thing you do is lie:

    Now you death lovers are claiming that nearly all abortions are due to (cue somber music….) PREGNANCIES GONE WRONG.

    Did I say “nearly all abortions”? No, I did not. Did the quote I posted say “nearly all abortions”? No, it did not. You are lying (and for reasons I already laid out in the post to which you were replying). Here’s what the quote says:

    When a fetus is aborted by the D & X procedure, it’s a wanted child but the pregnancy has gone wrong…horribly, horribly wrong.

    That boldfaced part is important. “The D & X procedure.” That’s what’s being discussed here, as that’s the procedure that’s being discussed in the videos–the procedure you hysterically scream at the top of your lungs is “butchery of live people” and “slavery” and “Auschwitz” (it’s none of those things). You dishonestly try to conflate the D&X procedure with all abortions because, as I said, this is where the gig is up for you. So you have to lie in order to avoid confronting the hollowness of your rhetoric.

    And again, this is exactly what I said you were doing and what you would could continue to do. My quote:

    They refuse to confront the fact that the procedure is medically necessary because they cannot do so without undermining their entire argument.

    Your immediate response:

    Again, bullshit. This “procedure” is so seldom “medically necessary” the whole argument is bogus.

    Look at you, refusing to confront the fact, just like I said! (And as a bonus, you then continue your lie conflating abortions done via the D&X procedure with all abortions. I guess if you’re gonna lie, you may as well go all-in.)

    So again: What is being discussed in the videos are medically necessary abortions of wanted pregnancies. No woman carries a pregnancy 8.5 months, then suddenly decides to end it for no good reason. To claim otherwise is a lie. To act as though these women would not have gotten abortions if it weren’t for evil, meddling Planned Parenthood conning them into it is a lie. To say that there’s no such thing as a medically necessary abortion is a lie. And you have told all of these lies so as to avoid having to confront the ramifications of your position. If you do not want to have an honest conversation, just say so–and stop pretending that you do.

    And on that note, I found this part amusing:

    Love your anecdotal story, not even a signed article but just a post by someone who probably remained unidentified, made even more fascinating by its sheer unbelievability.

    That’s, uh, your story about Planned Parenthood “pressuring” your sister into having an abortion. But I guess the good news is you now see your folly. But as for what I posted…you’ll find all sorts of medical researchers saying the exact same thing. You see, they are aware of what their jobs are–much more aware than you are. But you’d have to actually look, and I am quite confident, based on your showing thus far in this thread, that you will do no such thing.

    I also notice that you could not answer any of the questions posed to you. Why is that? Well, we both know why. It’s for the reason I said in the first place: Because if you answer those questions, the gig is up for you. You’ll have to deal with reality instead of screaming hysterical accusations.

    So I urge you to think this through. Quit with the hysteria, the ridiculous hyperbole, the name-calling, and the “death-loving slaveowners of Auschwitz!” absurdity that does nobody any good; approach this with a calm, rational mind; and actually try to engage with reality. It probably won’t be as emotionally satisfying for you, but it’ll be much better in the long run.

  8. i know no one wants to talk to me on this blog but it is amazing how she thinks. She is going to be so upset election time because no one is ever going to live up to her standards of politics. She is so right wing and so nuts even mark and cluster are not conservative enough. I love to point out a moment where she cries about not being conservative enough and how everyone else is stupid. It is hilarious

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